Measuring feel: Reflections on Simon Hoadley’s podcast interview with Drew Ginn and Valery Kleshnev

by | Mar 23, 2026 | Advice from the Greats, Coach education, Rowing, Sports science

The art and science of biomechanics. Rowing podcast with Drew Ginn and Valery Kleshnev

How to Listen

A summary of highlights (not at the expense of repeated and enthusiastic listening).

Measurement matters

Valery Kleshev is famous for his work with Austian Institute of Sport (AIS) and his work/publication on biomechanics.

Drew Ginn was at AIS during the early days of telemetry, using sensors to provide real-time and analyzable data. It took rowing past the days of stop watches.

  • Ginn acknowledged that measurement increased speed. When the rowers were being measured, their speed increased. The measurement encouraged greater intentness.

The human element

Ginn theorized that the measurements caused faster rowing because the coaches “are now watching you more closely.” The telemetry (the technology) matters, but there is a human element.

Ginn was renowned for his long stroke. Kleshnev recalls it being the longest stroke in the single he had measured. Others joked about trying to imitate Ginn because “he’s a bit of a rubbery sort of athlete.”

The moral of the story is that athletes are different. Trying to imitate Ginn’s technique if you are not a “rubbery” athlete is an invitation to injury. Even when comparing length, Kleshnev points out that one athlete might have a shorter stroke but row with greater force.

Humans using telemetry

Art and Science work together. The rower tests gut feelings with biomechanics. The athlete tries things and tests them against the data. Maybe the boat goes faster. Maybe the rower is easier getting to that level. The numbers and data either validate or debunk the feelings. The body wants to rest and recover. The body resists. The body wants to be comfortable. When working physically, the athlete pushes and uses the numbers. The rower intends to row long, but the body looks for opportunities to be comfortable, and so the stroke begins to shorten.

  • Telemetry helps. Science and art come together.
  • When things work, it builds confidence.

What do numbers mean?

Kleshnev: Fundamentals of an athlete’s force are very difficult to change. The force curve is like a fingerprint. It does not change.

Ginn: You can only try to improve one or two things. His erg numbers were not the key to his success, but “ergoes don’t float.” But “physiology and ergoes” are only 50% of the equation, maybe less. He focused on efficiency and matching up with his rowing partner. They had an efficient way of getting the blade in the water.

Embrace what we do not know

The more you know, the more you know the limitations of your knowledge.

  • Be open minded.
  • Embrace the data.

It is an endless process  Many coaches are wedded to old ideas. They are set in their ways. They ignore data that contradicts their approach. Younger rowers are more motivated by technology and open to data.

Let the body adapt

Coaches need to let the body adapt.

Kleshnev: Most injuries are from overuse. You need to relax the muscles . . . Experiments found the time of muscle contraction and relaxation . . . 90% of performance depended on time of muscle relaxation . . . Relaxation addresses over-use and injury. Posture must be comfortable, optimal.

Ginn: His ruptured disc leading up to the Beijing Olympics was not from rowing. It was in the gym. He did not listen to his body. He did notice that some of his rowing competitors and colleagues were very good at staying within themselves. Working on volume in a way that their bodies could handle.

Will it make the boat go faster?

A gem of this podcast was a review of one of the most-watched YouTube and one of my favorite videos on rowing: Drew Ginn’s Will it Make the Boat Go Faster?

Ultimately, he re-framed this question: Will it make the rower go faster? The same principle leads to a subtle but significant shift. Focusing on the athlete is more, than semantics. If one views the rower and boat as a “system,” most of the mass of the system is the body. Upgraded thinking focuses on the athlete.

Putting it together

Kleshnev: Be open minded. We cannot be a slave to our ideas. Build theories on facts. Abandon theories in the face of facts.

Ginn: Art and science. People and culture. They all exist together. They need to work and share together.

Hoadley: Un-stubbornness. Double-Sided Open Mindedness.

Listen and enjoy

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Written by Ted Humphrey

Ted Humphrey has been teaching and coaching rowing for more than 20 years. At the UCLA boathouse, he taught Masters and then assisted the Men's Rowing Team, primarily with erg training, sculling work, and a performance mindset of positivity. He also worked at the California Yacht Club, where he taught Masters and coached Juniors at the recreational and competitive level. Upon moving to western Massachusetts, he began training and coaching at Onota Lake (Berkshire Community Rowing), where he works with beginners, Juniors, and Masters. He uses CrewLAB to foster team culture and improve individual performance. Ted writes on sports, the philosophy of performance, and culture.

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